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DNA Profiling and Analysis

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DNA Profiling and Analysis

Postby YouBeThatDawg » February 21st, 2014, 4:26 am

This is something I am very interested in. Apollo's Parents (X and Kimber) are DNA-P, and I was thinking of going a head and doing him so his DNA is on file, and I can get an analysis of his breeding to add to his portfolio I am making for him. I was reading about it on the ADBA website and really thinking of inquiring. The only thing that has stopped me is experiences. I know too little people who can tell me how the process works. Actually, the only one I know is on her way to Italy!(Hope you have to loads of fun Joanie! Cannot wait to hear stories!!) LOL. So, I am out reaching and asking if someone else can tell me how this process works, and if it is worth doing. Yes we plan on competing and Yes I do plan on obtaining a kennel name through the ADBA and breeding for my own stock of WP/Conformation dogs later on. But is it really worth doing? (The DNA-P and Analysis).
"Before you judge a book by its cover, actually open and read the book first." -Moi

Tatonka's Apollo - 9 months old.

Goal: To have CGC by 2016. :)
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Re: DNA Profiling and Analysis

Postby BoldogKennel » March 2nd, 2014, 4:49 pm

Pit bull pedigrees are notoriously fouled. More than one very experienced old timer has said that the ONLY kennel that could be trusted to send the correct pedigree with a dog was the Colby family.

It continues to this day. I think the ADBA hit upon the DNA thing as a way to offer proof for buyers that at the very least, the puppy they are buying (if parents are DNA's) DOES come from those parents. Not a bad thing, really. There is a tremendous amount of fraud going on within the breed (and our breed is NOT alone in this) so I would say that in this breed it certainly is NOT a bad idea.

I think those breeders who incorporate DNA into their breeding program are trying to show that they are honest, serious breeders, and I sure respect that.

Have to add that I have no experience with this process yet. As some of my personal breeding stock is not registered, there really isn't a point. Joanie is back but EX-hausted I would think... probably be a few days till she can stagger over to the computer table! : )
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Bandog Brittania SchH I WDS U-CD
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Re: DNA Profiling and Analysis

Postby YouBeThatDawg » March 5th, 2014, 4:59 am

I don't know about selling pups, but I do plan on having my own stock. I'm doing research now to decide what direction I want to go. I love the very lean athletic look. I also love that Apollo is 9 months old and isn't really all that big. He >May< weigh 40 lbs now and is 20 Inches tall at the withers. But anyways, I guess my point is even though I want to compete and have basically my own stock (Given friends and family) would DNA-P mean the same to me? I guess that is the real question. I mean, It would be nice to have it on hand if someone questions the quality of your dogs.

But that would mean, if I want to go through with DNA-P, I would wont a female who also has parents DNA-P, so she can be done with ease. Which goes back to my 'Joanie is the only person I know that does it'. I Guess I need to research a bit more.
"Before you judge a book by its cover, actually open and read the book first." -Moi

Tatonka's Apollo - 9 months old.

Goal: To have CGC by 2016. :)
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Re: DNA Profiling and Analysis

Postby Tatonka » March 5th, 2014, 3:09 pm

Everyone has to start somewhere. if your bitch of choice to breed to does not have parents with DNA on file, offer to pay for it. If the breeders resist... do not buy the pup. The ADBA provides us with a way to put our money where our mouth is. We may as well use it.
Right now for you, DNA on file would mean that if he were stolen and you knew where he was, you could PROVE that he was yours and the police would get involved... you wouldn't be just another "I lost my dog" person.
There are ways to cheat, with anything... but it becomes harder and harder when others DNA their dogs. So, if a fellow DNA types the wrong dog, let's say because he was old when collected and he needed a "stand in", one day, the pups that were really sired by him would be different than the pups sired by the "stand in".
More importantly, it shows people that you can't lie. I believe this is the big reason people do not want to place DNA on file. Lies told will come to the surface.
The analysis is done by Amy Greenwood (or was... things change). She has known these dogs for her lifetime, and I think she would do a great job. She did a very nice job for Chaos brother.
I place DNA on file when I plan to breed the dog. If I had one or two, they would have DNA on file as absolute proof of ownership.... and a chip. I did some freeze branding in the past. This made an impact on people, they could see that the dog had a clear sign of ownership. Not a bad idea. The only problem is that a dog needs to have it held to their skin longer than a horse, and it gets a little uncomfortable. Anyone can do this, buy a freezebrand and brand their dogs.
Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking.
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Re: DNA Profiling and Analysis

Postby YouBeThatDawg » March 6th, 2014, 2:34 am

That does make a lot of sense. I just wanted to make sure it was worth the money. With how many dog fighting theives that live in this town, just that alone would be a good reason to get him profiled. He's already chipped and so will be any dog on my yard. I don't know about branding... I have considered tattooing before. But I don't know of anyone who tatts dogs.

The female I get will be DNA-P. That's the end of that. If her parents are not DNA-P and the breeders refuse to even if I offer to pay, I will go else where with my business. But I've also considered just sticking Sorrells/Tatonka. Just getting a pup off a different branch. If I can ever get hubby to agree to ship... I'd love something off AMF's yard.

Listen to me babble. But the reality is where ever this next pup comes from... I will probably have to travel. Which would be another reason to stick with Tatonka.


(I'm getting a staffy one day! Might be years but I want one.)
"Before you judge a book by its cover, actually open and read the book first." -Moi

Tatonka's Apollo - 9 months old.

Goal: To have CGC by 2016. :)
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Re: DNA Profiling and Analysis

Postby BoldogKennel » March 6th, 2014, 3:54 am

If you want to be a breeder, you will be MUCH better off staying within the Sorrells/Tatonka family. Line breeding within the family is what all the best breeders (of all breeds) recommend. You just don't want to start off by crossing two families or scatterbreeding.
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Wicked Cassie, Ring III U-CDX
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Re: DNA Profiling and Analysis

Postby YouBeThatDawg » March 6th, 2014, 4:14 am

Well I don't know if being a breeder is what I'm aiming for. But I do plan on breeding a litter here in the future, maybe 3-4 years. My only concern about line breeding is getting a pup too close to the others breeding.
"Before you judge a book by its cover, actually open and read the book first." -Moi

Tatonka's Apollo - 9 months old.

Goal: To have CGC by 2016. :)
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Re: DNA Profiling and Analysis

Postby Tatonka » March 6th, 2014, 4:22 am

Apollo is one of those dogs that won't be a dog until he is 3. Some of mine really grow tall long before the grow wide, and those dogs eat a lot. Chaos was that way, Sailor too. He will become an adult dog at around 3, body wise.
I feel that this group has a lot to offer, but the thing is that you have to do what you want to do with your dogs. Believe me, sometimes it is just easier to buy them than breed them. I have come to feel that way about my Staffords. I don't have enough of them to make a real statement, and they really don't do well in a kennel. How many can I live with? In my house? I am at odds with my lovely little Staffords. I adore them, but the breed really needs a family. APBT have such a different personality when it comes to housing and time spent. A Stafford really needs someone to love.
Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking.
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Re: DNA Profiling and Analysis

Postby Tatonka » March 6th, 2014, 4:42 am

Because Kimber is in his pedigree, you have a little outside influence (Hinemoa). I have his sister and am planning to breed her to her father (oh my goodness, Joanie is doing some inbreeding!). I bred Maha back to XXX (her sire) and I got one heck of a pup, Dos Equis. I would like to do that again and see what happens. If I get the same quality, I will be looking hard at that father/daughter cross for the future. I have Mad Nells, (Ayego Mad) sister for diversity (a related cross), and a bitch (Xris Xros) sired by XXX who is out of some of the old Skar stuff (a son of Poorboy). She is a black and tan version of our beloved Kiri bitch, a little short of leg but never failed to produce fair and square dogs. They always go back to the middle, you just need to trust them. We are ever vigilant about painting ourselves into a corner. This is a large family and my eye is always looking....
And, we haven't even started to talk about Tatonka's Red Chaos or the cool little ace up my sleeve Tatonka's Ying Yang.

For those of you that don't know my dogs (I always hate it when people think I should know every one of their dogs by their "first" name... here they are.
Tatonka's Kimber (sired by Tatonka's Red Chaos)
Sorrells Hinemoa (sired by Dead Serious Ch Red Man)
Tatonka's Maha (Sired By Tatonka's XXX)
Tatonka's Dos Equis (Sired by Tatonka's XXX)
Tatonka's XXX (Sired By Tatonka's Double Cross)
Tatonka's Ayego Mad (Sired By Madison Parkers Bid Daddy)
Greenwoods Got the Skar (Sired by Gr. Ch Ace of Ace Poorboy)
Tatonka's Xris Xros (Sired by Tatonka's XXX)
Tatonka's Kiri (Sired by Sorrells Ch. Sidekick)
Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking.
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Re: DNA Profiling and Analysis

Postby YouBeThatDawg » March 6th, 2014, 5:39 am

Oh wow. Please let me know how that breeding (XOXO and XXX) does. I personally was going to keep an eye on XOXO and see how her pups turned out and try and snag something off her some where. Probably not an XXX and XOXO, but the breeding is surely interesting enough. And I need to go back and look at Hinemoa again, I must have over looked her. I didn't realize she was an outside sourced dog. But you have dogs in so many different yards that come and go! Its hard to keep up. :P

SEE THIS IS WHY I AM RESEARCHING. I love talking to breeders and getting an idea of what I want. Where I want to go and what flow I like~ I definitely love the stuff XXX throws. I just have this gut feeling if I get something off XOXO or even another off XXX I will have an awesome pair. And I know its a touch of inbreeding and line breeding. But seeing as you plan on breeding XOXO back to XXX just means that I better keep my eye out. :)

I'm not getting another APBT pup until my set up is at least able to hold 2 dogs. So we are probably talking next spring or summer. I'm sure you will help me out when I get ready when ever that is. :) And thank you for sharing that list. I love it when you talk dogs. haha. :)
"Before you judge a book by its cover, actually open and read the book first." -Moi

Tatonka's Apollo - 9 months old.

Goal: To have CGC by 2016. :)
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