Recessed Vulva

[PibChick]

Has anyone had any experience with recessed vulvas or episioplasty to correct? Is it genetic? How often have you seen it? After the first heat is it safe to spay or will issues crop up again later. I can't get a straight answer from my vet or online.

One of my females had a recessed vulva (we call it her pee pee curtain) that resulted in horrible bladder infections until her first heat cycle. I planned on doing conformation with her (I hate it so much) but now I am thinking of just spaying since I don't want to breed her (especially if she is going to throw more vaginally cursed dogs). I am concerned that if I spay, her vulva will shrink too much and she will have issues again. The surgery to correct seems pretty invasive and there seem to be many complications if done wrong.

Feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[dogged]

I've experienced it with three dogs of my clients.

Two of them were caught early and allowed to go through a heat before spaying. In their case, it was effective and they didn't experience the UTI/bladder infections as well as the skin problems that can also accompany the problem.

One dog was spayed before her first heat and, after much time spent managing the problem, had the vulvar fold surgery with great results.

That's just been my limited experience.

[amity]

My dog has a recessed vulva as well and we've had intermittent problems for the last couple of years. My vet and I have discussed the surgery and for now, as long as she doesn't have issues too often I have opted to not have the surgery as I also read it is quite invasive. It's good to read the first reply from someone who has had the surgery done with good results. Recently my dog had to go on Clavamox and Zymox spray for a bacterial and yeast infection down there. I wish I had known then what I know now, and let her have one heat before I had her spayed. I have a vet tech in the family who scared me off of doing that when she said her chances of mammary cancer go up drastically with even one heat, but to be honest I'm wondering if that's even true. I'm discovering that a lot of people seem to be really clueless about breeding other than breeders - and she is not one. At any rate, good luck with your dog's girly bits and I hope it all works out for you! LOL @ "pee pee curtain" by the way. I call it her "pocket pee pee".

[BoldogKennel]

This is not something I have ever had experience with, so I'll leave the advice to the vets and vet techs on here or others who have experienced it. Having said that, you are correct in your assumption that some of what the "S/N fanatics" say is bunk. I have always spayed my females at what ever point they either need it or I am no longer going to breed them. So, in other words, many were "adults" and had gone through heat cycles. Grip, for example, was 6 years old before being spayed. She died at 14 from lung (or throat, can't remember now) cancer. My point is, I have never had a bitch die of or even get mammary cancer. I have, however, had a dog I neutered die from prostate related issues. So, you are wise to question the advice of many non breeders about S/N. No one understands their concerns more than I!!!! Lord, I had to kill dozens of dogs a week for a living, so I am a HUGE pro S/N person. But I also believe in being honest about the risks and benefits pro and con.

Best of luck with your girl. Is this something you can take a picture of and share? It seems quite rare, as I'm not even sure I have heard of it, so it would be awesome if you could post it for educational purposes. Thanks!

[stafinois]

This is not something I have ever had experience with, so I'll leave the advice to the vets and vet techs on here or others who have experienced it. Having said that, you are correct in your assumption that some of what the "S/N fanatics" say is bunk.

I wouldn't say that it's bunk. My years as a vet tech scared me out of ever having a female dog. I saw LOTS of mammary tumors and enough pyo to terrify me.

[amity]

I'd be interested in seeing a pic of the OP's dog too for comparison purposes since I've not encountered anyone else that had a dog with this problem, either, but figured I'd upload one as well.



This is a shot with her standing up and I just lifted her tail while my husband looked at me like I was nuts, but he knows I'm a complete dog fanatic. It still has a few pustules from the bacterial infection but has cleared up quite a bit with the meds. The vet also said that baby wipes could help after she pees to help keep the area clean/dry. I found that wiping each time ended up drying her out too much so now I just usually give it a little clean up at night and that seems to work okay, hopefully it'll help stave off further issues.

[amity]

Thanks also for the info about the S/N fanatics. The more I learn the more I realize that there's something to be said for letting a dog get to be an adult, particularly in this recessed vulva situation. As well, I have read that letting them come into heat before spaying can also keep ACL issues from happening, but I'm not really sure if her torn ACL was an injury or one of the 97% of degenerative cases. Based on my description of what she was doing/where we were when it happened, the vet believes it's entirely possible it could be an injury. I'm hoping so but know the odds are against us. At any rate, she's never looked back after I got it repaired and so far the other one hasn't gone. You'd never know there was anything wrong with her except now her knees don't quite match. However, just to be on the safe side, no Schutzhund or crazy sports for us! Constantly trying to find ways to tire her out and keep her on all fours!

[Tatonka]

I assisted my vet during a surgery for this on a mastiff bitch. He removed the flap, and the dog did very well.
I can't remember seeing that dog for UTI's after the surgery.
If I remember correctly, the dog was previously spayed.
The owner was very happy with the outcome... no more dribbles no more "stinky" potty area!
Let me tell you, we removed a lot of tissue from that big ol' mastiff!

[PibChick]

Here it is from 2 different angles.

You can see that there is a little flap of skin that shouldn't be there.

I treated her with baby wipes and cranberry juice after we did two rounds of antibiotics and her UTI came right back with avengeance. Nothing really worked and she was pretty miserable for a while. Once she went into her first heat she was fine. The vet said that hers was not that bad though and had seen much worse.

[PibChick]

I found some really awesome blog with photos about it done on a shepherd a while ago. I can't find the site now, but here is a nice few pictures directly post-op. Hope this helps
http://www.acvs.org/AnimalOwners/HealthConditions/SmallAnimalTopics/VulvarFoldDermatitis/

My vet told me the same thing about the mammary issues, and I looked at some studies and decided the risks were comparatively low. I am still going to spay her, but not for the mammary reasons.